ThoughtStorms Wiki

(ReadWith) NationState

In a sense it really has, in the 2016-on PopulistRight take-over via DonaldTrump etc.

See TheStateFallsToTheNetworks

Except these people are also "nationalist" representing some urge to defend their nation against the forces that are undermining it.

(ReadWith) FourthGenerationWar

Can the NationState last? It's under attack from NetoCracy in various forms :

Fights back with WiredCops

JohnRobb :

: Maybe what you'd expect? Two branches of NetoCracy, a terrorist network and a financial network, co-operating against the nation state. Almost by definition, doesn't have to be planned or explicit to be happening. It's emergent co-operation. (See also BazaarOfViolence)

: this has a media / technology dimension too. See OnMedia / MediaSystem and see TheMarketLogicOfInformation for the possible counter.

: another interesting point from this essay. States had to join InternationalStandardsBodies in order to get the best out their communication technology, interop with the neighbouring states.

: Overall thesis should be connected to ManuelCastells's NetworkSociety

  • Jan 2005, cheery WilliamLind says Most significantly, if we look at the larger world, we see ever more states coming unglued, which is the root phenomenon of FourthGenerationWar. The Saudi regime is in trouble, and its replacement will not be parliamentary democracy. Pakistan’s General Musharraf is one bomb away from his destiny, at which point al Qaeda will have nukes (if it doesn’t already). Russia’s President Putin is acting to strengthen the Russian state because he knows the state’s existence is on the line in Russia. In West Africa, the state is almost gone, and it is going in the rest of Africa. Most interestingly, as the next few months will likely show, the state is fracturing in Israel, a modern, Westernized country. That is how Fourth Generation war works: it pulls the state apart at the moral level. Soon, just as Arab is fighting Arab, Jew will be fighting Jew. :

Local private feifdoms :

: Compare BernardLietaer/HellOnEarth

Are the problem of the nation-state under attack just a sub-class of a the more general patterns of networks undermining hierarchies?


Maybe that should lead to a bit of CounterThinking. All those claims of networks inevitably beating hierarchies need to wonder about the times when HierarchiesBeatNetworks. Sometimes the conditions go the other way.

A twist on NetoCracy/MediaAgainstTheState : Italy: media-owner Berlusconi became prime-minister, is now under attack from ex-journalists standing as politicians.

What to do

If we want to repair nations we need to think about /NationBuilding but a BazaarOfViolence is an alternative structure which can occupy the same space and prevent nation states succeeding. (See also PlatformWars)

Maybe resilience is what's needed :

BrittBlaser : ''

The Network has the power to make American Politicians as irrelevant as the British Monarchy.'' (Compare (Compare EmergentDemocracy)

JohnRobb finds a "dangerous idea" compelling : what use is the nation state?

See also :